I got a Proposition [8] for you! - Kick Off Your Shoes And Stay A While - twinkie's Blog - Bakotopia

Nov 17, 2008 at 11:11 AM : I couldn't agree...

I couldn't agree more, I am so sad and disappointed by the failing of prop 8, who gives whom the right to say who one can love. Discrimination against one, hurts us all!

Nov 17, 2008 at 12:11 PM : BRAVO TWINKIE...

BRAVO TWINKIE BRAVO! This is stated perfectly...

Nov 17, 2008 at 01:11 PM : "Discriminati...

"Discrimination against one hurts all!" so true. It's just weird to me that people don't believe it's discrimination because the BIBLE says it's wrong. However, they are currently living their lives against what the Bible says themselves.

Josey... thank you. I had to steal it from Dave at Blogography for it to make more sense (well, at least more sense to me)

Nov 17, 2008 at 02:11 PM : "He...

"He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone" John 8:7

Nov 17, 2008 at 02:11 PM : This statement is...

This statement is incorrect. It's not retroactive. They won't be annulled.

And today I learned that if these two guys were married in California, their marriage was just annulled along with every other same-sex couple married in the state.

God forgive you the sins of your youth,,.just not your "right" because he knows you know better,.does that make sense?

Yet unless they were virgins when they got married, they are also living an immoral way of life (according to their own biblical standards.)

Here's one fer ya,..Even masturbation was considered sodomy.

The reason those two cities were destroyed is because God asked of them to do things his way (listen up people that want to say Christians are judgmental.) Christan's don't have to judge, they don't have to do anything but live they way they are supposed to. God will deal with people that aren't doing what he wants. He will pass sentence. Not really judgment. People have already judged themselves. If it's not what he wants he will deal with it. Don't get mad at Christians if you don't be lieve in God that's fine no problem. If you are Gay and you don't and you don't like God's decision, take it up with him. Another reason God destroyed the cities is God in terms back then was somewhat married to the believer. And to turn away from him is to commit adultery in a sense. God is very much "into" the family thing. We are his children, He is our Father, Jesus is the Groom we are his bride. Yes Fornication is wrong if not done while married. But as the bible states we ALL have come short of God's Glory not one of us is sinless. BUT through Christ who took our place we have been washed clean of unrighteousness. That means we will still sin, but those sins are taken care of by Jesus, and not to be taken lightly. As if to say eh I'll go do what I want, I'm saved from death. God will spit you out of his mouth and say he did even know you otherwise. It was all in vain.

See, the Bible states that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed not just because of men sleeping with men, but because of FORNICATORS too. Yeah, FORNICATORS

This is totally incorrect. What I just said above should tell you that. If you as forgiveness for all that you've done and do, and accept Christ then and only then and how and how will you be saved from any hand basket ride to hell. Cool thing is, God will take you the way you are, HE will change you. You don't have to Get ready to accept him

Therefore, if you're using the Bible as your moral compass then we're all going to hell in hand basket.

In turn I must ask you Twinkie: If when you were a child did your parents ever tell you to mind them about something but didn't give details as to why ? They knew best for you personally. they had a perspective you didn't. It's the same way here. God talks and Christan's are to listen. Yeah they don't always,.but a true Christian TRIES to do what God asks of him. Yeah they are weak and human but God whats you to follow him. If you screw up that doesn't mean all bets are off. You just keep moving forward. I don't believe Christians(I mean true ones that live by his word daily) don't hate or judge. They just know as the bible state "as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" Not a cool hip thing to do, but a will disciplined thing. You think Gay people are discriminated against? Try being a Christian that tries to live right. And it's not because it's that person. They are being Discriminated against because of Jesus himself He said this himself! That if you do my work it basically will not go unpunished by the rest of the world.

Lastly, Like i said on someones blog: We as citizens should never have voted on this issue that is something that should have been taken up by the Supreme Court to decide. I sometimes wonder if the government likes to divert attention somewhere else , just to get all eyes off themselves.

Nov 17, 2008 at 02:11 PM : hey msjosey do you...

hey msjosey do you know the full lesson of John 8:7? The old law states adulterers would be stoned and the person who the were with to be stoned. Jesus knew about half those guys had been with that woman. But what i see in that scripture it's saying that' "i" am the new covenant. the new testament. I will forgive you of your sins,.but you should go,..and sin no more. that's really what i see Jesus saying. OK I['ll shut up now.

Nov 17, 2008 at 02:11 PM : i don't believe...

i don't believe in hell, if you really wanna know why i will tell you, with my hell research in the bible and common sense....

Has to do with the word eternal and Satan and all wicked being destroyed.

Nov 17, 2008 at 02:11 PM : Twinkie: this...

Twinkie: this statement is impossible "What if we just live. And let live. How 'bout that? You think we can do that? Why is that so hard?"

although i agree and live by, this many cant, because people like to dictate others behavior. (eg. democrats & republican politicians) that's why you have to wear a seat belt when you drive, you cant smoke in your car when you have a child in it, you cant do drugs, drink at 18, etc etc (only naming a very few) see some people are scared about how it will effect them and they allow these laws.... its all about fear. i don't believe in restriction on 99% of things. I don't care if someone smokes with their kid in the car, if that how they wanna live, then do it that goes with pretty much everything.

Nov 17, 2008 at 02:11 PM : Yes, I do....

Yes, I do. I took it as everyone has sinned so before you start judging others look at yourself first.

Nov 17, 2008 at 02:11 PM : AND THE...

AND THE BAND PLAYED ON............ GREAT MOVIE!!!!

Nov 17, 2008 at 03:11 PM : GAYS SHOULD HAVE EQUAL...

GAYS SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS WITH INSURANCE, BENEFITS, healthcare, ETC.... I will say that much....

Nov 17, 2008 at 03:11 PM : John, you're...

John, you're using scriptures/the bible to tell me I'm wrong. You've obviously missed my point.

But I still stick to what I said. Because that's what I believe. If you're a fornicator, or drink to excess often, or are constantly judging people then you are also living a life of sin therefore how are YOUR sins less sinful than a gay person's (if you think being gay is a sin.. because your bible says it is.)

This statement is incorrect. It's not retroactive. They won't be annulled.

And today I learned that if these two guys were married in California, their marriage was just annulled along with every other same-sex couple married in the state.

Joe, this blog was written in 2004, so it did apply at that time.

Nov 17, 2008 at 03:11 PM : GAYS SHOULD HAVE EQUAL...

GAYS SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS WITH INSURANCE, BENEFITS, healthcare, ETC.... I will say that much....

AOK, I agree. that was the whole reason that gay people wanted the right to marry to begin with. To be able to have those equal rights married people enjoy.

Nov 17, 2008 at 03:11 PM : LIVE AND LET...

LIVE AND LET LIVE...... AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH MY LIFE I DONT CARE... GAY PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE TOO... THE MAIN THING IS, THEY NEED RIGHTS TOO...! CALL IT GAY MARRIAGE, OR CALL IT A DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP, I THINK SOME PEOPLE JUST WANT IT CALLED SOMETHING OTHER THAN MARRIAGE, BECAUSE GAY PEOPLE CANNOT NATURALLY HAVE CHILDREN LIKE A MAN AND WOMAN, GAYS CAN ADOPT, INVITRO FERTILIZATION, ETC.. WHATS IN A NAME?

Nov 17, 2008 at 03:11 PM : I don't...

I don't understand the point of the 2004 date and you saying it was applying,..As far as I know in California until recently it wasn't any ones ability to be married that was gay.

constantly judging people then you are also living a life of sin therefore how are YOUR sins less sinful than a gay person's (if you think being gay is a sin.. because your bible says it is.)

you do know that a lie is equal to murder in God's eyes?ALL sins are BIG to God even small ones they are the same size in every aspect. And yes I used the bible,.the law of God and HIS judgment not MINE, to explain. their is faulty reasoning in your statement. You re saying well hell we are all wrong and no one is right so we are going to hell. I dunno about you but I know I'm not going to hell. I try to walk the walk daily. I've asked forgiveness for my sins and the bible said if you confess your sins (to God) he is faithful to forgive us,.thus,..no hell In a and basket see my point Salvation is something you can't do BY your self and you have to have God's word(the bible) to help you understand that.

John, you're using scriptures/the bible to tell me I'm wrong. You've obviously missed my point.

I'm using Bible quotes to tell what God is saying. Not me myself. not for ME to judge anyone if you read what I was saying.

In other words your point is pointless to God if you are saying we are all going to hell,. There is a way free from hell.

My point was long before Gays were discriminated against Christians were and still are. And Christan's are no different that anyone else, but they are saved from a fiery pit of hand baskets! ;)

Nov 17, 2008 at 03:11 PM : " DO...

" DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP" Legally I think is mainly what is wanted,..anyone can be married if you believe it,.why would you care if anyone else thought you were or not.. I think what is really wanted is to be like everyone else and I'm sorry they aren't like a married man and woman why, be cause it's two of the same sex. Thus it's not like the typical married people. It will always be something.. Like,..what you don't accept that I'm married? Who care what anyone else thinks if you believe ,.hmm it must be so huh? Marriage is devotion to one person,..unless of course you live in Utah and you are a polygamist. If you bequeath your feelings to your partner,.who cares what the government states or sights. This tells you how little we have in our lives and you might say well it's important to me , and I'd say I'm sure it is, But there is more to life than fighting over this issue there is life it's self to lead. That's the long and short of it .

My personal belief is not in this,.What God says in MY life,..i said MY life,.not someone that is Gay I'm not going to be married to. God will deal with the just and unjust alike.

Perhaps this is off the subject a bit but wanted to say it for a while.

there are stereo types in all people yes there are blacks that love fried chicken and watermelon. (you can check Petey green out on youtube,..google Petey green and watermelon) that's not being derogatory,..just as there are some Irish men like to hoist some ale. etc. I think the stereotype (with Gay people is the ahem exception and not the rule) :

Generally there is a butch one and a feminine one,..thus mimicking a man and woman, this is just by and large by observation. I know some will take offense to this but it's true. Just as it's true with "some" people that are Gay that they struggle with being gay and came to terms with it (acceptance - out of the closet),..always feeling that they are different than straight people. They finally accept it and become and advocate with a very vocal manner. (like and ex smoker yelling at everyone that smokes) But it seems (speculation on my part) that the more they scream their cause ,..they are angry because they some how they feel they are not like everyone else. Thus they aren't. Some will always feel this anger and will manifest it against straight people because they want to be treated equal. Even if the populace treated them the same as everyone else they look at themselves saying,.I'm different and i just want to belong with everyone else. Thus once again angry seethes. I can't do anything to change that,. that's something they themselves will have to work through. But I feel as though as I go through my life I should be brutalized because that person is angry that they can't be like everyone else. So you see it will,..always be something with that type of person,.the stereo typical person, if you will .

I'm kinda wondering how people will take my blog on the angry child molester (up north and had stayed here in Kern County) story I'm be posting soon.

Nov 17, 2008 at 04:11 PM : I get what...

I get what you're saying, Joe. Thank you for your comments. I appreciate how you've tried to stay the least judgmental as possible while still trying to get your point accross. Or, I'm sorry. I mean God's point accross.

Nov 17, 2008 at 04:11 PM : from my friend...

from my friend daydreamer:

So, have any of you heard about this Christian group called Focus on the Family? Here's the link in case you are brave enough to go visit their site: http://www.focusonthefamily.com/

Somehow, I got on their mailing list and several months ago started receiving their propaganda in the mail. (I'm sorry but that's what it is). At first I just threw it away and ignored it but then one day I noticed that the mail they sent me was about Prop 8 and how I should vote yes on Prop 8 to save the "traditions of Marriage and Family". It was filled with wrong information and get this, it wasn't even based in California. Wow! So, I e-mailed Focus on the Family and asked them to remove me from their mailing list as I did not support their beliefs and was not interested in receiving their propaganda. The e-mail I got back was a very Holier-than-thou statement about how great they were, how I should take the time to investigate their beliefs, (OH I DID! That's why I asked to be removed from their mailing list), and then a few quotes from the bible, I guess to save my poor misguided soul. But I was told that I would no longer receive their mail.

Apparently those Christians don't follow the same commandments they preach about lying because did I stop receiving their mail? Let's just say no. A few weeks before the election, I received a letter from the founder and leader (of hate) Dr. James Dobson. He wanted to inform me that our country was in great threat of being destroyed by Barack Hussein Obama and he was here to enlighten me about why I should vote for John McCain. Basically the only reason he could give, other than spin on the truth, was that McCain was Pro-Life and Obama was all for killing babies. I was infuriated. Not just about his personal view points, which I very much disagree with but that here is this religious movement, getting their nose all up in politics and trying to dictate the way the election should go based on what? Their own Christian beliefs. I can't take this shit anymore, people. I really can't. So, I wrote them a letter.
It went like this:

Dear Focus on the Family and Dr.
James Dobson,

I have already asked to be removed from your mailing list. I do not support your beliefs and I have no desire to read your propaganda. (listed my address) please remove that address from your system so that I stop receiving your mail.

I have a very hard time swallowing your desire to infuse your religious beliefs into our country's political climate. This country was founded on the principle of Seperation of Church and State- we all have the right to believe whichever religion we choose or the right to no religion at all- your desire to alter the course of our political election by instilling your Christian doctrine into law and calling on the people who share your beliefs to vote for a person who you feel can further your christian beliefs through the government is unlawful-stick to reaching out in your communties through the word of Jesus with love and understanding of all people, not through politics.

The Seperation of Church and State is not only there to protect people from the dangers of running a country based on one set of rules forced by religion but it is there to protect the churches of all different religions so that the government can not take away your rights. The day that the Christain churches of this country allow the Federal and State law to dictate what you teach in your churches, what programs you are allowed in your churches, and how to run your churches, than I will be more willing to listen to you try to instill your christian doctrine into Federal and State law.

Thank you for removing me from your mailing list,

Amber blah-blah blah

Is this going to change anything? No. Is this going to stop these people? No.
Do I feel better? HELL TO THE YES!!

After doing some more research, I found out that Focus on the Family has pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into the Yes on Prop 8 campaign and in the process had to lay off hundreds of their workers.
Talk about family values, right?

I'm going to write them another letter about this. Let's just say that they are going to be hearing from me quite a bit. They are going to be my new hobby and man oh man are they ever going to wish I had never gotten on their mailing list.

If you are at all interested in writing to them to tell them how much they suck for supporting and funding hate and discrimination against homosexuals, you can write to them at: Focus on the Family Action 8655 Explorer Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80920

P.S. I'm going to mention that I hope they are teaching their followers to stone their children when their children don't follow their faith and to kill any of their followers who eat shellfish because that's what the bible says we should do. And if you are going to use the bible to support the reason you oppose gay marriage than you had better support EVERYTHING the bible says. Otherwise, you are just picking and choosing the words of God for your own benefit.

Nov 17, 2008 at 05:11 PM : here is the thing...

here is the thing about focus on the family and everyone else that's an organization,..they aren't the individual and I was speaking what Christ says in the bible,.with out my judgment or my twist. just what it says. It's not my place to judge, I've used logic and reasoning to decide what is best for me,.and me alone, I can't say what is right for you, take that up with your God. As I said,..As for me and my house we will serve the Lord. But you might also consider it was a Christian base that started this country and based laws on the biblical principles,.ahem In God we trust. It always for all to choose what is best for them but also reminding everyone if you Choose, there is someone that died for you . My choose is not a judgment. It's my choice. I say you have the freedom to do what you wish even though I don't agree or believe in it.

By the way,.i rather quote the bible than Focus on the family, or anyone else. We are individuals and God speaks to us and guides us all in our own way.

If you are at all interested in writing to them to tell them how much they suck for supporting and funding hate and discrimination against homosexuals, you can write to them at: Focus on the Family Action 8655 Explorer Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80920

isn't this a bit juvenile? it's kind like two children sitting at the table one slaps the other and that one slaps them,..does it not end? who is the bigger person and you are encouraging people to harass them as yous aid you were harassed, the solution might be that you find the person that put you on their mailing list.

P.S. I'm going to mention that I hope they are teaching their followers to stone their children when their children don't follow their faith and to kill any of their followers who eat shellfish because that's what the bible says we should do. And if you are going to use the bible to support the reason you oppose gay marriage than you had better support EVERYTHING the bible says. Otherwise, you are just picking and choosing the words of God for your own benefit.

There is a new testament that i spoke of,. Did i mention Christ and stoning earlier,? that was from the NEW testament the testament of Jesus. He doesn't advocate stoning,.but loving.. Did you know he spoke more on loving your brother more than any other subject/ He even said that if you have words with your brother you should go settle it right then,(to avoid a root of bitterness against them)..and he also mentions how many times that you should forgive your brother or sister when they wrong or hurt you,..not 3 times or 7 times,.but 7 times 70! he was more into passive resistance than Gandhi or anyone else. MLK Jr. took pointers from him in the whole civil right movement. Through only love can we conquer hate.

So in essence you are saying hate Christan's because they are judgmental and love gays simply because it's OK for the same sex to sleep together? Because if you say any different you will have to recalculate everything you just said. I say love both and not care about their faults what ever they might be.

Nov 17, 2008 at 05:11 PM : Well, Twink, dragging...

Well, Twink, dragging on the armor here.... truly, you are right... God does not differenciate between sins. To him, lying is the same as rape, as murder, as stealing 5 cents...

In the bible it also says "abide by the laws of the land". This means, speeding... arson, breaking and entering, you name any law and we're supposed to abide by that. So is speeding sinning? If we're told to abide by the law of the land... and we don't, are we just breaking the laws of man? Or of God? Are sinning?

Live and let live will never work in this world. Because someone will always be doing something someone else thinks is wrong. We can think it's wrong, just on our own personal beliefs, or we can also think it's a sin.

Yes, if you read and believe in the Bible, homosexuality is a sin and it's wrong. If you're fornicating, that is wrong and a sin. If you're lying, cheating or stealing, it's wrong and a sin.

I think that being gay is just wrong and against nature. You don't see two same sex people or animals having babies together, hence, it's against nature, in my opinion. I also know being gay is a sin, but I myself sin, we all do, and one sin isn't any worse than another, to God, so I am just as guilty as gays are of sinning. I TRY not to, but none of us is perfect.

There are people out there, without religion as a reason, that think being gay is wrong. Just like they think stealing is wrong, that rape is wrong, arson is wrong... it's just wrong to them. Without dragging God into it.

The problem is that we want to keep God OUT of our business until someone is sick, someone dies, someone is hurt, an act of terrorism comes to haunt our country...then they want to believe in Him and call him to save us, help us and heal us. God is not a toy on a shelf... you can't just take him down and play with him when you want.

And in response to the above message, "before Gays were discriminated against Christians were and still are. And Christians are no different than anyone else..." Well, Christians ARE different...they're trying to live the right life, they're not perfect, church isn't for the perfect, it's to save the sinners. They are only forgiven. The only perfect man on earth was killed for it, tortured and mocked, spat upon and reviled... and he wasn't gay.

Nov 17, 2008 at 05:11 PM : And those comments are...

And those comments are how the world came to be the crappy place it is today, with less and less morals. Because people have the "if they're not doing it to me, it's ok" mentality.

You think it has nothing to do with being gay, but it does. First, the "moral majority" was against it, and many other things that are wrong... the more "modern" we've become, the more "ok" it is to "do what feels good" and pretty soon, people just don't want to be bothered with morals...until they require them.

I'm sure that someone who's child has been molested is not enrolled in the school of "if it feels good do it". How long are we going to just continue to roll with this phrase?

People don't have to hate gays, anyway... or any other sinners, which would be ALL OF US. The bible also teaches to hate the sin and not the sinner. I hate when people cheat, when they are doing things to hurt other people, when they lie and deceive people to get their way... but it's not ok to physically harm anyone.

I'm totally against the gay lifestyle, yes, I voted for Prop 8... but I also think it's WRONG to hurt ANY of them because they're gay. It's not for us to take our anger out on them, to hurt them, or any other sinner, in any way, unless they're receiving the death penalty for a crime. We can hate what they do... everyone hates something that other people do, but you cannot just take matters into your own hands and harm any of them.

Most people do NOT "live and let live". How many of you out there REALLY TRULY live by that? YOu never comment or make disparaging remarks about a co worker who does something you don't like? Or a family member that you don't like? Or kids that are mean to YOUR kids? Women that make a pass at your man, or a man making a pass at your woman? Sports... there's a good one to live and let live and the most famous of all time... POLITICS< I didn't see anyone "living and letting live" during election times... it was a free for all on this site with people calling each other names, saying they were stupid... and all manner of things. Why? Because someone dared to have their own opinion and stand up for it.

So, no, live and let live will never work

Nov 17, 2008 at 06:11 PM : Thank you for at least...

Thank you for at least agreeing with my main point, devilwoman. I know that you and I don't agree on this subject but at least you're able to see the point I was trying to make without taking away from your own personal belief!

Nov 17, 2008 at 10:11 PM : No, Twink, we do not...

No, Twink, we do not see eye to eye on some things, but at least we can disagree respectfully and not call each other names and tell each other that we're stupid.

I've disagreed with many things on the site, seen some outright lies being spoken for truths and people lying and being very deceiving to keep up some "image" they think they have... when someone knows the truth about who you ARE.. kind of lets the steam out of their arguments...

Showing people respect, even when they disagree with you, doesn't take anything away from your own point of view, it just means you can be respectful that someone else has a different one. I wish more people would do that....

Nov 18, 2008 at 08:11 AM : Wait...there really...

Wait...there really are people that are into The Hard Rock Cafe?

Nov 18, 2008 at 09:11 AM : hahah Tanner......

hahah Tanner... I take it you clicked on the link? LOL http://www.blogography.com/

I think that the Hard Rock is a GREAT excuse to travel throughout the world, don't you? Personally I'd base my traveling on strip clubs or a band or something. But the Hard Rock has strippers (not working there, hanging out there) and live bands so hey.. that might kill two birds with one stone.

Seriously though. When Mr. and Mrs. Twinkie retire, we're planning on travelling the world to go watch a baseball game in EVERY SINGLE STADIUM in America. We'll also probably golf in those cities while we're at it.

Nov 18, 2008 at 09:11 AM : in other news......

in other news... (again on the Focus on the Family group who by the way is an OUT OF STATE group that majorly helped fund the YES on 8 campaign.)

http://coloradoindependent.com/15287/after-pumping-money-into-prop-8-focus-on-the-family-announcing-layoffs

Focus on the Family is poised to announce major layoffs to its Colorado Springs-based ministry and media empire today. The cutbacks come just weeks after the group pumped more than half a million dollars into the successful effort to pass a gay-marriage ban in California.

Critics are holding up the layoffs, which come just two months after the organization’s last round of dismissals, as a sad commentary on the true priorities of the ministry.

“If I were their membership I would be appalled,” said Mark Lewis, a longtime Colorado Springs activist who helped organize a Proposition 8 protest in Colorado Springs on Saturday. “That [Focus on the Family] would spend any money on anything that’s obviously going to get blocked in the courts is just sad. [Prop. 8] is guaranteed to lose, in the long run it doesn’t have a chance — it’s just a waste of money.
”

In all, Focus pumped $539,000 in cash and another $83,000 worth of non-monetary support into the measure to overturn a California Supreme Court ruling that allowed gays and lesbians to marry in that state. The group was the seventh-largest donor to the effort in the country. The cash contributions are equal to the salaries of 19 Coloradans earning the 2008 per capita income of $29,133.

Ok, so why I am soooo obsessed over this group now? Well, because like I've tried to say here and other blogs, there is absolutely NO secular reason to have voted YES on 8. "Religious"? "Spiritual"? "Moral"? YES. "Secular"? NO!

Nov 18, 2008 at 09:11 AM : James Dobson and FOF...

James Dobson and FOF will always take on anything they see as a threat to marriage and the family, as described in the Bible. That is what they do, promote Christianity and family...being one man, one woman and their kids. As long as there is a threat to what he believes in, no matter what state it is in, he will be there to fight it.

Personally, since I hold many of the same beliefs that he does, I applaud his dedication to protecting what he believes in. He's willing to do whatever it takes to fight for his beliefs, regardless of the odds of success.

As for the layoffs, as I am not personally involved and have no knowledge of it, I am just guessing that it was discussed among the employees and they knew it would be coming if they just dumped all their assets to fight for Prop 8, when he gets money back, I'm sure from donations across the country, he'll hire them back. I'm not saying this positively, just that I think that is what is happening.

That is my opinion.... and you know what they say about opinions... :)

Nov 18, 2008 at 10:11 AM : From a...

From a Christian's standpoint, I see what you're saying and I guess it sorta does make sense. But from a mom of four kids with bills to pay standpoint... WHAT THE HELL WAS HE THINKING? LOL

Nov 18, 2008 at 10:11 AM : I totally...

I totally agree, Twink. Gay marriage doesn't compromise those who are married, will be married, or even the concept of marriage.

Nov 18, 2008 at 10:11 AM : going back to...

going back to blogography for a second... another reason I love that blog is because everytime you go in there or click on "refresh" a new animated dave pops up. My favorite is the "Ugly Betty in the Guadalajara Poncho" Dave. Cracks me up. That guy has some talent! tee hee!!!

Right now he's got a great blog about Fox News and their "fair and balanced" news ... tee hee. My favorite part is his "Daveguard Internet Protection System" which you can check out by clicking HERE

Nov 18, 2008 at 01:11 PM : from a myspace buddy.....

from a myspace buddy.. interesting perspective:

Call it something else perhaps? (prop8)

....that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;-Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet,

I know this is a quite controversial matter. But here goes. "Marriage" in a union between one man and one woman, ordained by God, and where chidren may be concieved. The bible does not state that "Gay people should not be married", however it does state be pure from sexual immorality ie: adultry, prostitution, homosexuality, fornication. This is not the point I'm making, so lets move on.

Changing the definition of a word in the name of rights is absurd. I don't believe those who voted yes on 8 are homophobic (scared of gay people) or hate homosexuals. I do not hate gay people, I don't dislike them. I voted yes on 8 (delete me now if you wish). I have friends/family who are gay. Elimination of anyones rights is wrong, including the "right" for two consenting adults to have a legal civil union recognized by the government in which they can receive certain benefits. I voted against the word "marriage" to be used to define a union between two same sex people. To demand a change to the definition of something that has existed since the beginning of time, in almost every country, culture and religion is wrong and I think it's discriminating against heterosexual couples to force this to be done. If the propositon had been to have a legal gay civil union in which homosexual couples could have a legal "wedding" ceremony to join in such a union to recieve the same rights/benefits and a "married" heterosexual couple (wich I do belive we already have) then I probably would have have voted for that.

Bashing of heterosexuals, Mormons, Christians, Catholics, even recently African American's for not submitting to the blatant force by homosexuals to change and therefore modify beliefs of marriage, is most definately HATE and DESCRIMINATION. To force a group of people to change what they believe is taking away freedom from those people. The requirements for marriage is one man and one woman. The requirements for a Civil Union can be any two consenting adults.

I was raised a Christian, I am still a Christian. I don't think I'm better than anyone else nor should I receive "rights" because of this. God created us all equal and all in his image. He loves us all. I don't believe he would condone anyone being hateful toward his creations. Jesus said to love thy neighbor as thyself. I say people forget this. But, in the religion I have chosen and that I believe in, says the union of "marriage" is between one man and one woman. I feel attacked that I should be forced to change that which I have always believed to be true.

A homosexual couple is "different" than a heterosexual couple in that one is the same sex and the other is opposite sex. It should be okay for their union to be named different.

Why can't we just do this?

Nov 18, 2008 at 02:11 PM : reply from daydreamer:...

reply from daydreamer:

In this Prop 8 debate, I've read many different point of views on the subject. I've heard both sides arguement and the one that seems to stick out most from the side that support the passing of Prop 8 is that the word "marriage" shouldn't be changed to include homosexuals because from the very beginning the word marriage was about a man and a woman.

Let's have a look at this:

Most ancient societies needed a secure environment for the perpetuation of the species,a system of rules to handle the granting of property rights, and the protection of bloodlines. The institution of marriage handled these needs.

Thus the start of "marriage." If you research different cultures, every culture has a different tradition to how marriage was handled but the majority was based on the concept of securing "rules" around property rights, protection of bloodlines, etc. Thus marriage was a contract.

The notion of marriage as a sacrament and not just a contract can be traced St. Paul who compared the relationship of a husband and wife to that of Christ and his church (Eph. v, 23-32).

So, then the term "marriage" was said to have religious ties.

We go from marriage being a contract to becoming a sacrament.

So, in this day and age when we live in a country where there is supossed to be a seperation of church and state, we define the word marriage as only a religious term? Well, if that's the case, I think only those who go to church on a regular basis, were married in a church, who obey every single word of the bible and live their life according to the words of the bible, have the right to use the word marriage.

Scott and I were married outdoors in a secular ceremony, does this mean that I can not say I am married to him but that I am in a civil union with him? That Scott is not my husband but my domestic partner? Since neither of us are Christians and do not go to church, does this mean I shouldn't have the same marital rights as those who do go to church?

I mean, if you really start digging into the word marriage and all of the traditions that marriage comes with across the world, there is no way for any one set group of people to define it and claim rights to it.

One reason I think we need to change the way we define marriage is that in the days of old, homosexuality was not something people understood. It was something that you hid. People considered homosexuals sinners, sodomites, perverts, psychopaths. We didn't have the enlightenment, the science to understand it, the open-mindeness that we have today. Say back then, we knew all that we know now about homosexuality. That homosexuals are just like us. They are normal people who have lives just like we do except they love people of the same sex rather than the oppisite sex.

That being homosexual does not make you any more likely to be a child molester, a pervert, a sinner, a psychopath, or a bad person than a hetrosexual. That although two woman and two men can not produce offspring together, in todays world with science and fertility advancements, with adoption and the like, a gay couple can have children as well. So, pretend all of what we know now, we knew way back then when soceity was starting to secure an environment for the concept of marriage; do you think that the term marriage wouldn't have been used to include homosexual couples? (This is of course not making any room for people who still believe it is a moral issue). But just based on the facts of what the concept of marriage is, why wouldn't that be inclusive to homosexuals? I think it would have been. But the fact is, in the old days, they didn't know what we know now and so the concept of marriage was just assumed to be between a man and a woman. And this assumption does nothing, in my opinion, to secure the right to the use of the word marriage to define one man and one woman.

Nov 18, 2008 at 03:11 PM : You do know that some...

You do know that some people think Bill ahem William helped write some of the bible,.I don't believe it but thought I'd throw it out there.

Nov 18, 2008 at 03:11 PM : Yet the Virgin Mary...

Yet the Virgin Mary remains sinless perfection right Twinkie?

Focus on the family / PG and E has their right to dip in to the funds for their causes. (well PG and E was not a private company which was underhanded) As for me? I could careless what they do. I don't pay attention to them. I am even having my gas and electric being changed from PG and E to a cheaper better alternative company http://www.notopge.com :)

Secular reason? hmmm because some strange people hate gay people,..there's your secular reason. and sadly i bet there is a lot out there.

Nov 22, 2008 at 01:11 PM : word! the...

word! the twinkie has spoken.

Nov 23, 2008 at 02:11 AM : I think we all have...

I think we all have spoke for that matter! ha ha